19 replies to this topic

[ReqPro]

Well, been playing around a bit with some UnrealScript for fun and figured I'd post a small WIP on a Top-Down camera control scheme I'm screwing around with.

Nothing incredible graphicswise, nothing but placeholders and out-of-the-box assets and a floor - it just demonstrates the working scripts - more will follow



for more detailed info, visit this link to my blog on DRIVE@ http://drive.3d-pala...pt-experiments/

[olblue]

Nice work Req.

[olblue]

And fielding it from the right wing here comes a picture from inside UDK. I was messing about with some ideas - not really getting anywhere so I thought I would open it up to people. One SMALL area. What should it be like? SMALL area. We can make it bigger later.

[ReqPro]

I acutally like it - but maybe you should solidify it a little more with some BSPs

could be a nice start to a waste water facility or something

[olblue]

yeah BSPs would be the next stage.

[ReqPro]

hmm I might convert this control scheme into a diablo clone thingy - should be interesting

We'll see when I play around a little more with it, for now it'll stay a top-down shooter as I know Cris gets confused when a game involves more than mindless violence >.<

[olblue]

Sighh. I wanted one with no shooting at all remember

Anyway - I will return to working on this level this evening.

[ReqPro]

Ah-hah! It's the attack of the red cardboard box-zombies!

Another WIP showing that I added movement and attacks to the eeeebil red boxes of doom! ... and the fact that I'm a lousy shot



for more detailed info, visit this link to my blog on DRIVE@ http://drive.3d-pala...ings-from-hell/

[ReqPro]

Today, while chatting up Cris on Messenger, he asked a question that I encounter quite often when reading about UDK stuff.
It's about the package system that the Unreal Engine is based upon, and below is a copy/paste of our conversation where I explain my findings as I've seen them documented around on the web.

If someone has a better answer or a good system of organizing your packages, please feel free to chime in!

Cris Robson says
where should I save the UDK map usually ?
Kenneth Pedersen says
normally under content, you'd create a directory with the name of your project, then in that directory create a folder called maps and save it there
all assets and whatever you use, you save under that Content/ProjectName/ folder
in packages
the whole packages concept is hard for me to get used to... Do you make a package for each asset, with textures, materials, etc - or do you make one package for meshes, one for textures, etc? It's entirely up to you, but I find it somewhat hard to keep it neat and organized
some people make one package for the whole damn project, then divide that package into categories, but that makes the package gigantic
but either way, a map will always be saved as a standalone package, so I believe most people use that map package to also save all assets tied to that map in the same package, and then make packages for the player, for enemies, etc
so when loading a level, it loads the map package plus any shared packages such as the player, weapons, etc so udk only loads the minimum required packages for each level
point is, don't ever save the player assets into a map package, because then you'd be forced to load the map package the player is in regardless whether the player is actually in that level of the game, resulting in maybe having 2 maps loaded into memory at a time
I think personally I'd save the assets specific to only tat particular level in the map package, then create a common package with whatever assets are needed regardlesss of what level you're in
takes a bit of planning ahead though
Cris Robson says
add that to the gamesdev post squire
en masse
Kenneth Pedersen says
most flexible way is to make a package for each and every asset, but that'd give you a crapload of packages
UDK as far as I remember uses a package for each asset
in fact let me check up on that, I'm having doubts all of a sudden
yep they use separate packages, divided into categories
with a shared category
like for example UDKGame/Content/UT3/Characters/CH_LIAM_Cathode.upk
and that package would then contain all assets required for the LIAM character
textures, meshes, etc
so to follow UDK's example you wouldn't save any assets in the map package, instead they have an extra package that contains all the assets for a certain environment - for example if a map is in a desert environment, it would contain assets from the desert environment package
means that level designers have to be a little careful because if you mix environments in a map (which is far from unthinkable - indoor/outdoor) you'd load 2 giant packages into memory, and perhaps only make use of 25% of the assets in each
lots of wasted memory
but I'm guessing Epic knows what they're doing
ah they're keeping the packages small, dividing each environment into smaller packages, such as Desert/Rocks, Desert/Floors, Desert/Flora etc

[olblue]

Req has probaby already posted up by now however - what Im investigating today relates really to the way I use max and the inefficiencies I see regularly in game development by people who are looking to build levels. We know one of the key important factors is PLAYABILITY of a level yes - however playability also stems from immersion in the game. We play because we have switched off the part of our mind that is saying "this isnt real, this isnt happening, this is fake" etc. Sure we know we are not really killing thousands of people in Infant Blaster 2 - however we still want to be immersed when we are fighting the boss level Nursemaid or whatever.

Anyway - what Im looking at and trying to demonstrate at the moment is the use of an area - in this case a lowered area similar to a sump. We see them in games all of the time. Set dressing is an important aspect of games - look at World of Warcraft as a minimalist example done well - they have a pallette of props that they reuse so that the identical areas have some form of differation. Now look at Gears of War - endless low walls, so the level designers have to reason with you WHY are there low walls there?

So lets look at the placement of a simple barrel. What the hell has someone put a barrel there for?

Will it explode? If so - what the hell is a dangerous fuel filled barrel doing there? If not - whats it storing. Why? Why is it there?

Ok, we have a lowered area - DRAINAGE then. Perhaps the barrels are there for drainage? Do we have any pipes? We probably need some to lead to the barrels. That allows us to SENSIBLY add in more props to dress the scene now.

So we have the drainage from these pipes - we therefore introduce a nice tap thats near the barrels which are arranged uniformally near the tap.

No we dont. Some grunt put those barrels there who is on minimum wage (lol, just like us eh) so we think - he didnt spend an extra 10 minutes that he could be smoking in arranging each barrel perfectly. We would notice - even on a military base there is irregularity to a degree. The barrels would be rotated differently and thats just a start. By doing that the identical barrels look different anyway which helps.

So whats needed with the pipework near the barrels which we assume are fed from these waste pipes or feed into them - hell let your secret plumber run wild for all I care... we do need inspection lighting down there - flickery as no decent electrician will go out of their way to want to work in a sump area. So - lights, pipes and barrels - not too many though. Cost efficiency for our imagined company that owns Sump #2 or whatever it is.

The area is pretty clear - what do people put in empty areas that are not visited much? Look behind your desk. Its crap isnt it. Make other areas tidy by pushing things where people wont see - so we have some old masonry - thats cool because it allows us to play on an idea. What is the big ass rocks down there damaged some of the paving? We can do that. Oh no - it will need repairs now!

This then means that we can add in a pile of masonry thats been gathered up, some damaged paving and now we can make some parts that are perhaps getting ready to be transported OUT of the sump...eventually. Although it looks like it might have been forgotten about in a management shuffle I bet. So we add in some steel girders under a big rock - so that a crane can get its lines underneath it. We now have a sensibly raised rock on unevenly placed girders next to a pile of masonry which is spread near broken paving slabs lit by an inspection light that is over some barrels that will be filled (or emptied) by pipes at the side of the sump.

This sounds exciting as doing a crossword whilst having a dump HOWEVER we now have an area that has character. The player may look at it for less than 5 seconds whilst shooting someone else HOWEVER they are not going to look at it and go "What the doubleshit is this stupid looking area for?", Its an area where lazy workers have dumped their shit, management have ignored and frankly needs a damn good clean and repair.

And it hides what is otherwise a staircase and lowered surface.

[olblue]

So thinking about it - adding pipework to the top walkway left is a very good way of getting a reason to add some chainlink fences (which we KNOW you cant shoot through EVEN with a rocket launcher by the way). Some minor dressing at this point is more masonry and isolated parts including control panels and distributors for the pipework.

Anyway a picture is worth 1000 words. Except in a recession when its worth about 1.45 Euros.

[olblue]

Just adding a note at this point - whilst im aware that the stairs are too regular - there is going to be set dressing on those stairs too. Remember - a section of a level is NOT something you can throw up in about 10 minutes - you are looking at a believable space. Also req just got back from his gay fireman parade to tell me you CAN shoot through chainlink fences if you set up the static mesh properties right. What do I care? I make levels - thats his gay witchcraft.

[olblue]

So - looking at the sump and its development so far we have a much more complex scene developing from what our original shape. I will post up some pics of the original shape as Im not sure I got a screencap of it - just imagine its not full of junk though.

Now the way I thought through the idea was to imagine the sump. Who works there? How commited are they to sump maintenence. What machines are there likely to be to automate the sump area and what crap is there going to be in there. With that in mind the actual palette of parts I used was pretty low - its all pipes. And what 3d-palace user who uses my tutorials DOESNT know how to make a shitload of pipes? Were you asleep or something? Oh and Pipelike machinery and sprockets and some cables. Again see the above point.

So - subbing in your own parts wont be difficult is what Im saying - however thats not what this is about - its about trying to make an area that has purpose and is made for purpose. Look at it and you think - bloody lazy bastard janitor hasnt cleaned properly. Thats good. Look at it and think - This sump is just an empty trench... and you have it wrong.

So heres some more piccies.

Oh and this set is on DRIVE@ as of tommorow.

[olblue]

So the finished scene (not level - a level is lots of these things) is now passed to the other member of the team - in this case thats Req. (yoo hoo)

He is going to go over lighting and colour (as any one who knows me will attest that this is for the best) and then pass it back, I will then compile it up and its done. Req is going to record the segments he does however for continuity - I prefer it that people get to see the entire workflow however you know what Im like.

The last part I recorded was amusing as I was pointing out the errors that can be made in rushing to put in a load of shitty detail that is not needed - finishing post saga. You are at the end so you mash things in carelessly. STOP LOOK AND THINK. Drivers do that all the time - nearly home, foot down. Swerve...etc.

Anyway - Im going to up some images. Im pleased with how this came out - the iOS version works a treat too









Other people CAN post in this thread btw..

[ChrisPerr]

Unreal doesnt necessarily load the full package if something is referenced in a shader/level.

[ChrisPerr]

If you are working on a fairly small level just save all that shit to a single package. That is less than I think its 32 Mb?
NBD
If you are working on a full game youll want to split them up fairly consistently per asset type. However this is more because of content delivery then anything else.

[ReqPro]

Awesome, thanks for clearing that up for me, CP

[olblue]

feel free to come join us bulling about games dev and acting like children CP.

[olblue]

Rather nicely as a byproduct of Req and I working together and basically insulting each other all day yesterday a new learning set was finished way ahead of schedule which is always good. The plan is that I want to demonstrate using UDK and the various attached pipelines of asset development, the various roles that people seem to overlook in their haste to develop their first AAA Bedroom Billionaire title (this never happens).

As I mentioned before, I think one of the most commonal pitfalls is that people really want to develop a games level or a game or whatever and just don't realise the sheer volume of material that is going to go into the development process - the UDK set 3 I just did for example demonstrates how we dress the set up and prepare it and make it look built for purpose, however it contains not one usable asset commercially. Everything there belongs to Epic - demonstrative assets. The next job is much more administrative and involves breaking down the entire developed set to look at what is inside of it. What parts are needed and what their priority is. These will then form the asset dictionary which will be passed to the art director and then down to asset development.

The problem that a lot of people really need to realise I think is that with something overall as complex as UDK and as a high detail game, one person can no longer do this - its got to be a team, a managed team and a team with roles. What we are doing is showing what each team member is supposed to do in their own role - so later we can have fun with Openoffice and UDK doing asset management for example (what a blast), we can do QA Auditing of Parts and so forth. Basically shit that you really need to know about and no one in their right mind would usually teach as frankly it would make you go insane (if we were not insane already).

However being good at 3d isnt going to get you that job - being good at doing 3d is. Which is what this is about I suppose. Fortunately in a previous life I was a QA and AQA consultant so dont worry - I can make the world of corporate auditing and accountability interesting and fun! (possibly)

Meanwhile, heres a video of UDK 3.

[ChrisPerr]

Looks interesting will be cool to see the whole thing lit and shit